Comments on: An Elephant in the Room? http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/ The Official Website Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:25:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: BlackBerry Bold Touchscreen Reviews http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-3061 BlackBerry Bold Touchscreen Reviews Wed, 13 Jul 2011 03:11:14 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-3061 Very nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wished to say that I've truly enjoyed surfing around your blog posts. After all I’ll be subscribing to your rss feed and I hope you write again very soon! Very nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wished to say that I’ve truly enjoyed surfing around your blog posts. After all I’ll be subscribing to your rss feed and I hope you write again very soon!

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]]> By: stephen http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1273 stephen Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:06:39 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-1273 I would agree with much of what you say, except that my experience (as I tried to relate in my piece) is that dreams are as exquisitely organized as the human body. For thousands of years the human race related to the body as a complete mystery. In modern times, thanks to science, we have come to understand that there is a profound organization to the workings of the body, not strange, superstitious mysterious forces -- the germ theory just to name one. I have come to understand, through analysis five days a week for many years now that this has been true of my dreams, of every dream I have encountered. I would agree that there is risk in exploring the structure of a dream without the dreamer involved (not to mention the expertise of a doctor - few can do it well, I find) Nonetheless this dream (with the help of my analyst seemed to organize itself very clearly. The theme in the phrase "there's an elephant in the room" has clear ramifications that, once applied to to the plot of this dream and the way it was responded to as presented in the article, brought many issues to the fore that I felt worth discussing. The most critical theme I wanted to begin to bring to bear was exactly what I've already stated -- dreams are absolutely precise in their structure and their intent in delivering us messages (just as the body does it with pain, etc) -- what is imprecise is our ability (as of yet) to really understand these nuanced messages from the mind, just as this was a problem in say, the 18th Century when "bleeding" was one of the preferred forms of dealing with illness. Care must be maintained as you have properly pointed out, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't preceed... I would agree with much of what you say, except that my experience (as I tried to relate in my piece) is that dreams are as exquisitely organized as the human body. For thousands of years the human race related to the body as a complete mystery. In modern times, thanks to science, we have come to understand that there is a profound organization to the workings of the body, not strange, superstitious mysterious forces — the germ theory just to name one.

I have come to understand, through analysis five days a week for many years now that this has been true of my dreams, of every dream I have encountered.

I would agree that there is risk in exploring the structure of a dream without the dreamer involved (not to mention the expertise of a doctor – few can do it well, I find) Nonetheless this dream (with the help of my analyst seemed to organize itself very clearly. The theme in the phrase “there’s an elephant in the room” has clear ramifications that, once applied to to the plot of this dream and the way it was responded to as presented in the article, brought many issues to the fore that I felt worth discussing.

The most critical theme I wanted to begin to bring to bear was exactly what I’ve already stated — dreams are absolutely precise in their structure and their intent in delivering us messages (just as the body does it with pain, etc) — what is imprecise is our ability (as of yet) to really understand these nuanced messages from the mind, just as this was a problem in say, the 18th Century when “bleeding” was one of the preferred forms of dealing with illness.

Care must be maintained as you have properly pointed out, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t preceed…

]]> By: K West http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1261 K West Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:13:40 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-1261 In the original New York Times article, the author/dreamer writes that this was not the type dream she would ordinarily experience. This dream was what the Jungians call a “big dream”, a dream that “is a departure from all your regular dreams”. She was affected by this dream--worrying that it meant something negative about her psyche--and she did, over time, seek a deeper understanding of its content. Of course, while researching and writing about the Red Book, she was meeting and talking with Jungian analysts, and she mentioned her dream to a few of them. As a nurse, I equate it with someone who feels an occasional fluttering in his or her chest being at the same party as a bunch of cardiologists. You know they are going to ask about it…I mean…the opportunity is right there, but none of the doctors really want to be bothered with the question in that setting. When asked by the Jungians if she had dreamed, the question seemed to be just a social pleasantry. A few concepts and symbols about the dream were tossed out to her by various analysis over a period of several months, but, in the end, the author doesn’t state whether or not she ever gained any insight into her dream…and if she had, how this understanding would make a difference in her life. Okay, about the dream…I think all of us have “big dreams” now and then. They stick with us, and we think about them over and over until time passes and they fade, but not necessarily disappear, from memory. Some of the images, feelings, etc. that are floating around in our short term memory become woven into our dreams. Perhaps the image of the elephant had nothing to do with wisdom but everything to do with the dreamer seeing an ad for the Zurich zoo in a brochure at her hotel. Perhaps a fleeting thought of her daughter's teacher pulled that character into the dream to take the hit for not showing up to grill the massive elephant head. Speaking of the head, it took me a while to work though this interesting image--a ginormous head…were there tusks or no tusks…was the back of the head the part sizzling on the grill…where was the trunk…what did the grill look like (I thought maybe a 1950’s built in stone type with a big patio that took up half the back yard and had a little stone wall build around the perimeter where people could sit)…did the elephant have an unpleasant odor as it cooked adding to her disgust, and do people actually eat elephant meat? (I did a quick internet search, and to my surprise, elephant meat is a delicacy and a very profitable industry in some areas). Back to the dream, one analyst suggested that eating the elephant was a symbol of integration, but she wasn’t eating it, she was cooking it. Considering that the idea of eating it disgusted her, I doubt she would have managed to get cooked elephant meat on a fork and into her mouth before she woke up. If I were to take my little leap, I’d say the elephant represents writing the Red Book article. She was spending a lot of time on this significant project which would be read and perhaps dissected by many analysts, and nobody (represented by the cocktail carrying folks) would help ease the stress of this task. The teacher, if the maternal image here, wasn’t going to help her out either (tough love). She was on her own--little spatula, big head to cook, and angry about it. Overall, I think it was a pretty interesting dream to read about because the images put together were so bizarre. I used to fly a lot in my dreams, but the last few years, I just lift up and hover indoors, my back close to the ceiling with my arms and legs extended like Sally Field's in The Flying Nun until I'm ready to come down or else "lose my thermal". Flying is sure fun. I admit that An Elephant in the Room wasn't an easy read for me and my views expressed here simplistic. I think we need to be careful about dream analysis. Our culture is obsessed with examining the nuances of every aspect of our lives, including our dreams--why we feel the way we feel and do the things we do (seen the self-help section in a big bookstore lately?). With such scrutiny, how can any of us ever feel wholly healthy? The author/dreamer put her dream in print for the public, so, of course, it's fair game for anyone, from this nurse to the those with significant interest or experience in dream analysis, to ponder and take a leap or two. Too many leaps, however, about our own dreams can leave us nowhere near where we began--and with no greater understanding of who we are. In the original New York Times article, the author/dreamer writes that this was not the type dream she would ordinarily experience. This dream was what the Jungians call a “big dream”, a dream that “is a departure from all your regular dreams”. She was affected by this dream–worrying that it meant something negative about her psyche–and she did, over time, seek a deeper understanding of its content. Of course, while researching and writing about the Red Book, she was meeting and talking with Jungian analysts, and she mentioned her dream to a few of them. As a nurse, I equate it with someone who feels an occasional fluttering in his or her chest being at the same party as a bunch of cardiologists. You know they are going to ask about it…I mean…the opportunity is right there, but none of the doctors really want to be bothered with the question in that setting. When asked by the Jungians if she had dreamed, the question seemed to be just a social pleasantry. A few concepts and symbols about the dream were tossed out to her by various analysis over a period of several months, but, in the end, the author doesn’t state whether or not she ever gained any insight into her dream…and if she had, how this understanding would make a difference in her life. Okay, about the dream…I think all of us have “big dreams” now and then. They stick with us, and we think about them over and over until time passes and they fade, but not necessarily disappear, from memory. Some of the images, feelings, etc. that are floating around in our short term memory become woven into our dreams. Perhaps the image of the elephant had nothing to do with wisdom but everything to do with the dreamer seeing an ad for the Zurich zoo in a brochure at her hotel. Perhaps a fleeting thought of her daughter’s teacher pulled that character into the dream to take the hit for not showing up to grill the massive elephant head. Speaking of the head, it took me a while to work though this interesting image–a ginormous head…were there tusks or no tusks…was the back of the head the part sizzling on the grill…where was the trunk…what did the grill look like (I thought maybe a 1950’s built in stone type with a big patio that took up half the back yard and had a little stone wall build around the perimeter where people could sit)…did the elephant have an unpleasant odor as it cooked adding to her disgust, and do people actually eat elephant meat? (I did a quick internet search, and to my surprise, elephant meat is a delicacy and a very profitable industry in some areas). Back to the dream, one analyst suggested that eating the elephant was a symbol of integration, but she wasn’t eating it, she was cooking it. Considering that the idea of eating it disgusted her, I doubt she would have managed to get cooked elephant meat on a fork and into her mouth before she woke up. If I were to take my little leap, I’d say the elephant represents writing the Red Book article. She was spending a lot of time on this significant project which would be read and perhaps dissected by many analysts, and nobody (represented by the cocktail carrying folks) would help ease the stress of this task. The teacher, if the maternal image here, wasn’t going to help her out either (tough love). She was on her own–little spatula, big head to cook, and angry about it. Overall, I think it was a pretty interesting dream to read about because the images put together were so bizarre. I used to fly a lot in my dreams, but the last few years, I just lift up and hover indoors, my back close to the ceiling with my arms and legs extended like Sally Field’s in The Flying Nun until I’m ready to come down or else “lose my thermal”. Flying is sure fun. I admit that An Elephant in the Room wasn’t an easy read for me and my views expressed here simplistic. I think we need to be careful about dream analysis. Our culture is obsessed with examining the nuances of every aspect of our lives, including our dreams–why we feel the way we feel and do the things we do (seen the self-help section in a big bookstore lately?). With such scrutiny, how can any of us ever feel wholly healthy? The author/dreamer put her dream in print for the public, so, of course, it’s fair game for anyone, from this nurse to the those with significant interest or experience in dream analysis, to ponder and take a leap or two. Too many leaps, however, about our own dreams can leave us nowhere near where we began–and with no greater understanding of who we are.

]]> By: Stephen Gyllenhaal http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-912 Stephen Gyllenhaal Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:33:55 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-912 This is very interesting. I'll explore it more when I have time. I expect I'll do some more work on this dream. It's particularly interesting to me because it's there in black and white in the New York Times. I posted this on the Huffingron Pose and there was no real response to it. Funny. We live in a time when war after meaningless, hopeless war can be discussed ad nauseum, when every minute detail of a rambling discourse on Health care can be given millions of words, but a piece on what I think is potentially a real pathway towards health is ignored. I am struck by the degree to which dreams have been completely discounted in today's culture, even - as you point out - there are many cultures before us that took dreams, myths, symbols, etc as something very important. There is some vague nod to it in contemporary religions, but note - with the exception of the born agains - how empty the churches are. This is a very interesting time for someone to put a dream in the NY times that is as violent and disturbing as an elephant has it's head chopped off and our dreamer is being forced to address cooking and eating it by herself. This is very interesting. I’ll explore it more when I have time. I expect I’ll do some more work on this dream. It’s particularly interesting to me because it’s there in black and white in the New York Times. I posted this on the Huffingron Pose and there was no real response to it. Funny. We live in a time when war after meaningless, hopeless war can be discussed ad nauseum, when every minute detail of a rambling discourse on Health care can be given millions of words, but a piece on what I think is potentially a real pathway towards health is ignored.

I am struck by the degree to which dreams have been completely discounted in today’s culture, even – as you point out – there are many cultures before us that took dreams, myths, symbols, etc as something very important.

There is some vague nod to it in contemporary religions, but note – with the exception of the born agains – how empty the churches are.

This is a very interesting time for someone to put a dream in the NY times that is as violent and disturbing as an elephant has it’s head chopped off and our dreamer is being forced to address cooking and eating it by herself.

]]> By: Incognita http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-890 Incognita Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:00:30 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-890 Just came back to ask where the rest of the elephant went? There's no mention in the dream. Talking of the Indian god, here's a bit about his head http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesh_Chaturthi#Origin "Parvati was in a dangerous mood and, seeing her in this mood, the other gods were afraid. Shiva, in an attempt to pacify Parvati, sent his ganas, or hordes, to find a child whose mother is facing away from the child in negligence, to cut off the child's head and return quickly with it. The first living thing they came across was an elephant facing north, the auspicious direction associated with wisdom, so they returned with the head of the elephant." Any clues here? Again the legend has nothing on the rest of the poor decapitated baby elephant! And what happened when its mom returned. These gods served their purpose and that's it! Just came back to ask where the rest of the elephant went? There’s no mention in the dream.

Talking of the Indian god, here’s a bit about his head http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesh_Chaturthi#Origin

“Parvati was in a dangerous mood and, seeing her in this mood, the other gods were afraid. Shiva, in an attempt to pacify Parvati, sent his ganas, or hordes, to find a child whose mother is facing away from the child in negligence, to cut off the child’s head and return quickly with it. The first living thing they came across was an elephant facing north, the auspicious direction associated with wisdom, so they returned with the head of the elephant.”

Any clues here?

Again the legend has nothing on the rest of the poor decapitated baby elephant! And what happened when its mom returned. These gods served their purpose and that’s it!

]]> By: Incognita http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-889 Incognita Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:29:49 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-889 This is right up my street. And deep, way too deep. Give me the whole weekend please ... This is right up my street. And deep, way too deep. Give me the whole weekend please …

]]> By: Herman G http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-888 Herman G Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:21:36 +0000 http://stephengyllenhaal.net/an-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-888 Although I do not understand all of it, it is obvious to me that this essay of yours, could be a gold mine for a script writer. You did a Twin Peaks episode once. Try this one piece of you mind out. I looks worthwhile. Herman G. Although I do not understand all of it, it is obvious to me that this essay of yours, could be a gold mine for a script writer. You did a Twin Peaks episode once. Try this one piece of you mind out. I looks worthwhile.

Herman G.

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